Gumbii said, "keep your comments to yourself and go back to worry about your tiny planted tank stocked with tetras... and i'll worry about my thousand dollar koi, hundred dollar goldfish"

Gumbii -- I've noticed several times that you place value on a fish (or dog) based on its monatary value. I think that's where the disconnect between you and some others (and myself) stems from. Several people are speaking of animals as having value as a living being, and not based on how much it sells for, or if it's "just a fish".

Zambize

I see both sides... very interesting. Reminds me of the war debate. Do we sacrafice a few good men and women (soldiers) so that the rest of society can enjoy the fruits of their efforts, or do we keep them safe at home and learn to live in a subpar economy? I don't think Gumbii is meaning to place a value on a certain fish, but the economy has already done this for him (specifically fish owners!). If a koi is worth thousands, you go to greater toils to retain its value and existence. A koi's life isn't any more valuable than a tetra, but the monetary worth is much greater so the effort/risks are much higher to keep it on market. Thus is the nature of keeping animals as pets... the business end of it will displease certain people who would rather not deal with the business end of it, but that end of it must be dealt with by someone or we wouldn't enjoy them as pets.

And Zambize and that side is correct as well... maybe a towel in the trunk of a car is not the best way to transport fish... If koi's require this type of transport due to their size, then it should be done with a transportable tank. And if cost is an issue, the koi should be priced accordingly to accomodate this transport, just like any other commodity. Otherwise, this could be considered a koi mill, of sorts.

interesting ............it brings me back to the "line" and where is it? i agree with both sides of this fence {for once in my life, lol} unfortunatley while i agree that life in and of itself is the value period............we humans are as a rule are inately driven on putting a value of some sort on everything weather it be an emotional value to the cycleist who just rode 150 miles just to do it or the real estate broker who signed that beach front property - -unfortunatley a bungalo on the beach is worth far more than a cabin in the hills - - in a market driven society, now personal value plays big in this as well.............ie. personally id rather live in the cabin than on the beach.............but i can't deny that the beach house comands more money...............that being said, it is only natural {wether we like it or not} that some species have more value than other monetarily speaking - -i have had 800 dollar labs that were friggin worthless and i had a free lab mix that was the best dog in the whole world ..............i own a pure bred boxer whose mother won the Eukanuba best in class 6 years ago and two of her litter mates sold for 3500 each - - BUT my lil Lexi is pure white and therefore completely worthless as far as the ABA {American Boxer Assoc.} is concerned - -but again this lil worthless dog with 3500 dollar blood in her is a sweetheart and a very good companion

So yes we put values on everything....Z wouldn't take a million dollars for her 85 dollar dog and Gumbii wouldn't give her 1 dollar for it - - -i don't think either of them are wrong.....just different minded - -- gotta love the checks and balances of this species we belong to eh????

Boss

Boss -- "that being said, it is only natural {wether we like it or not} that some species have more value than other monetarily speaking" ---- This I agree with. Money is our unit of exchange. My point is that too many people determine how they treat (or don't treat) an animal based on its money value, and not whether an animal should or shouldn't have money value.

Gumbii -- Aw, I see your sensitive side, rather than that abrasive, scaly side. :) I think it was the pigeon vitamins that got me. ;) I see that we do have points of this in common.....as we usually do.

Off to open another $45 bag of dog food for my $85 dog....

Zambize

Zambize, i do agree with you... my statement about the greater toils on the business end meant that if you were planning on selling something, you will spend more energy and money to handle it. In your case, you arent spending all that money on the dog to turn around and sell it, so thats very humane and generous of you to better its life. However, if you were to deal with selling that dog again, you won't spend that kind of money, because it wont be economically feasible to keep it up, eventually it will become too expensive as a business. I agree that the business side is where things need to change, such as prohibiting the sale of animals that require mishandling in order to reach the market at an affordable price. But don't confuse my stance, i am completely on your side... i just can't discount the business end of things when it comes to making these animals available to the public. :)