hi, Im done with the crap you have too deal with in a small aqurium so we decided to get a 55 african chilid tank. We do have a experience with them we had them and breeded them too. But its been awile (4 years) so I came hear to get some adive. I have a couple of questions.
Are they safe with plants?
If not how about When there young are they safe with plants?
If so are they safe with peaceful yet can be asertive fish in a communtey?
Is it really worth it to ''crowed your fish"?
Thanks Ill take any advise I get.
help with chilids
16 posts • Page 1 of 2
-
Peterkarig3210 - Posts: 1980
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am
I hear they eat most plants, so that means no as far as I've heard.
The toughest plant I know is the anubias variety, and I wouldn't be surprised (if it was tied to wood, so they can't pull it up) if you might be OK with that.
The leaves are thick and, I don't think, taste very good, so if you want plants with cichlids I'd try anubias.
The toughest plant I know is the anubias variety, and I wouldn't be surprised (if it was tied to wood, so they can't pull it up) if you might be OK with that.
The leaves are thick and, I don't think, taste very good, so if you want plants with cichlids I'd try anubias.
-
mro2you2 - Posts: 625
- Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:37 pm
No, I was wondering about my plants in my 2o. I was planning to put fry in there.
Anyone else pleace answer my other questions
Anyone else pleace answer my other questions
-
Peterkarig3210 - Posts: 1980
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am
Plants won't hurt fry.
I'm not a cichlid expert, but some people say that in a cichlid only tank, it's actually good to crowd them a little, as this disrupts the more teritorial ones from getting too atatched to a certian territory.......Or I guess it makes them less likely to beat each other up or something.
With mixing cichlids and other community fish, that's something someone else will have to comment on, though I think that territorial fish in general are really mostly aggressive toward those of the same species, so except for a few types, most other community fish of similar size would be OK.
I just thought of one thing though. Cichlids are supposed to have more hard, alkaline water, and many other tropical fish require the opposite, soft, semi acidic water, so that might be something to think about.
There are a few cichlid experts here, so hopefully one of them can help you.
I'm not a cichlid expert, but some people say that in a cichlid only tank, it's actually good to crowd them a little, as this disrupts the more teritorial ones from getting too atatched to a certian territory.......Or I guess it makes them less likely to beat each other up or something.
With mixing cichlids and other community fish, that's something someone else will have to comment on, though I think that territorial fish in general are really mostly aggressive toward those of the same species, so except for a few types, most other community fish of similar size would be OK.
I just thought of one thing though. Cichlids are supposed to have more hard, alkaline water, and many other tropical fish require the opposite, soft, semi acidic water, so that might be something to think about.
There are a few cichlid experts here, so hopefully one of them can help you.
-
mro2you2 - Posts: 625
- Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:37 pm
But will the fry hury the plants. good point about the type of water good catch. If you know any pleace tell em to come here. ;)
-
jweb - Posts: 318
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 am
It depends on what type of setup you want. Crowding is really only good it you have either A.) More females then males or B.) All males of different species. Don't get more than 1 male of each species and each male should have at least 3 females, unless going with rule B. Plants are basically a huge waste of time. Any plants you get, whether or not they want to eat them, they will surely uproot them everyday and you will find yourself replanting them every morning. Plus the plants will get stuck in your filter intake, so it's pointless. What they really love are rocks with holes.
-
dizzcat - Posts: 648
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am
"Are they safe with plants?
If not how about When there young are they safe with plants?"
Nope, not the adults. If they don't eat them they will dig them up like Jweb said. Mbuna are vegetarians, so will nibble your plants. They are fanatic diggers too and will uproot all the plants. I have live plants in one of my fry grow out tanks and they are fine with the small fish. Once they hit 2" tho, all bets are off.
"If so are they safe with peaceful yet can be assertive fish in a community?"
Again, no. African cichlids are too aggressive to keep with any kind of community fish. Even a young 1" juvenile will beat the crap out of a community fish. Their profile may say mildly aggressive, but this is compared to other African cichlids, NOT other community fish. If you go with African cichlids like Mbuna (which is the the only ones you can really do in a 55, because the peacocks and Haps get too big) get only Mbuna. There are certain catfish that can handle them, but no common community fish.
"so except for a few types, most other community fish of similar size would be OK."
Not even a community fish their size will be safe with these aggressive fish. Only other Africans can keep up with the aggression they dish out to each other. I made a mistake one time. I put a few Guppies in with my 1/2" fry and the African fry beat them to death within a day. These fry were a forth the size of the guppies.
"Is it really worth it to ''crowed your fish"?"
Yes! The less fish you have in the tank the more aggression you will have. I have 16 full grown Mbuna (4-7") in my 55 gallon tank and because of that I have no aggression issues. With fewer fish, the most dominant fish will pick on the others too much. With more fish, the dominant ones have too many to pick on and too many to keep out of their territory.
An African cichlid setup is rocks, lot and lots of rocks. Make sure each fish has at least one cave. Better is 2 or more caves per fish. They require a higher pH than regular fish at 7.8-8.6. Do NOT mix African Cichlids with South American Cichlids. They have totally different water and setup requirements, dietary needs and aggression levels.
As Jweb pointed out, the best setup is 1 male to 2-4 females. Do not have more than one male per species or the most dominant one will kill the other. Even with the so called "non-aggressive" Electric Yellow Labs. African cichlids do not pair up the way SA cichlids do, so if you try one male and one female, the male will harass the lone female literally to death trying to get her to spawn. His attentions are spread out with more females.
I have 3 main groups, Red Zebras, Yellow Labs and Acei in my tank. 1 male each with 3-4 females for them. I then have some lone males and a rainbow Shark. I also have a good number of fry hiding out in the rocks all the time.
Mbuna might be aggressive, but they are the most fun fish to own! They offer never ending entertainment with their antics and I promise you, you will not regret it! Compared to them, a regular community tank is boring as heck!
The best thing you can do is Google African Mbuna and learn all you can so you know what their needs are. Once they are set up they are just as easy to take care of.
Good luck!
If not how about When there young are they safe with plants?"
Nope, not the adults. If they don't eat them they will dig them up like Jweb said. Mbuna are vegetarians, so will nibble your plants. They are fanatic diggers too and will uproot all the plants. I have live plants in one of my fry grow out tanks and they are fine with the small fish. Once they hit 2" tho, all bets are off.
"If so are they safe with peaceful yet can be assertive fish in a community?"
Again, no. African cichlids are too aggressive to keep with any kind of community fish. Even a young 1" juvenile will beat the crap out of a community fish. Their profile may say mildly aggressive, but this is compared to other African cichlids, NOT other community fish. If you go with African cichlids like Mbuna (which is the the only ones you can really do in a 55, because the peacocks and Haps get too big) get only Mbuna. There are certain catfish that can handle them, but no common community fish.
"so except for a few types, most other community fish of similar size would be OK."
Not even a community fish their size will be safe with these aggressive fish. Only other Africans can keep up with the aggression they dish out to each other. I made a mistake one time. I put a few Guppies in with my 1/2" fry and the African fry beat them to death within a day. These fry were a forth the size of the guppies.
"Is it really worth it to ''crowed your fish"?"
Yes! The less fish you have in the tank the more aggression you will have. I have 16 full grown Mbuna (4-7") in my 55 gallon tank and because of that I have no aggression issues. With fewer fish, the most dominant fish will pick on the others too much. With more fish, the dominant ones have too many to pick on and too many to keep out of their territory.
An African cichlid setup is rocks, lot and lots of rocks. Make sure each fish has at least one cave. Better is 2 or more caves per fish. They require a higher pH than regular fish at 7.8-8.6. Do NOT mix African Cichlids with South American Cichlids. They have totally different water and setup requirements, dietary needs and aggression levels.
As Jweb pointed out, the best setup is 1 male to 2-4 females. Do not have more than one male per species or the most dominant one will kill the other. Even with the so called "non-aggressive" Electric Yellow Labs. African cichlids do not pair up the way SA cichlids do, so if you try one male and one female, the male will harass the lone female literally to death trying to get her to spawn. His attentions are spread out with more females.
I have 3 main groups, Red Zebras, Yellow Labs and Acei in my tank. 1 male each with 3-4 females for them. I then have some lone males and a rainbow Shark. I also have a good number of fry hiding out in the rocks all the time.
Mbuna might be aggressive, but they are the most fun fish to own! They offer never ending entertainment with their antics and I promise you, you will not regret it! Compared to them, a regular community tank is boring as heck!
The best thing you can do is Google African Mbuna and learn all you can so you know what their needs are. Once they are set up they are just as easy to take care of.
Good luck!
-
gumbii - Posts: 1695
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:31 am
lol @ you can keep all males...
you can have plants with some african cichlids... you have to make sure that they aren't herbivore's or omnivore's... you can have like haps, auls, shellies, machromi and oter species with plants... you just have to be carefull...
also... there are some plants that will tollerate the beatings of the cichlids... i used to have jungle and corkscrew val. in my tropheus tank... along with p. demasoni...
another thing... to have a better survival rate of the fry it is best to have a species tank... if you have all of them the same species they will leave all fry alone... only fry will pick on fry... they want the colony to thrive and survive...
i have learned the the male to female ratio doesn't matter when you do a species specific tank... i had 9 males and 4 females of p. demasoni and they never killed eachother...
also when mixing groups i would only have two groups per tank max... unless you have like a 180 or something... and groups should be more than 15 fish per colony...
you can have plants with some african cichlids... you have to make sure that they aren't herbivore's or omnivore's... you can have like haps, auls, shellies, machromi and oter species with plants... you just have to be carefull...
also... there are some plants that will tollerate the beatings of the cichlids... i used to have jungle and corkscrew val. in my tropheus tank... along with p. demasoni...
another thing... to have a better survival rate of the fry it is best to have a species tank... if you have all of them the same species they will leave all fry alone... only fry will pick on fry... they want the colony to thrive and survive...
i have learned the the male to female ratio doesn't matter when you do a species specific tank... i had 9 males and 4 females of p. demasoni and they never killed eachother...
also when mixing groups i would only have two groups per tank max... unless you have like a 180 or something... and groups should be more than 15 fish per colony...
