Snow -

I have to disagree with this one:

Snow said "But i think that we {humans} as a rule are simetrical beings...............so if we chose to move out of this and date, a person of another race, creed, color, same sex..............we might need to "warn" other simetrical beings, so they aren't taken off guard"

That is to say it is ok if someone else has issue with someone being different. We "warn" someone when there is impending danger or something reasonable to be wary of. If someone has issue with a different race, then maybe they should be surprised and be uncomfortable. It's their own prejudice making them so and to give them warning is to approve of their prejudice. And about symmetry, isn't two women or two men more symmetrical than a man and woman? That would be asymmetry. And if "we {humans} as a rule are symmetrical beings", then why were so many different variations of us created?

I don't introduce myself as "Hi, I'm Z and I'm gay." just to warn people. If they get to know me first they'll like me and maybe expand their horizons a bit. This has happened many times and I've helped many people reconsider their prejudices by allowing them to know me first. I'm never deceptive, but if I'm not throwing it out there to warm someone, my orientation usually simply doesn't come up for a bit. At work, a very religious co-worker didn't know I was gay until he had spent many hours chatting with me and he liked me very much. He found out that I'm gay and after a few more (more interesting conversations), he's reconsidering his upcoming vote on gay marriage in California. I'm glad I didn't warn him.

Z

Peter -

It sounds like leaving your ex was, and is, very hard. But it also sounds like it was the right thing. So many times the right thing is so hard to do. I've left more than one poisonous beautiful woman. And I still think about them sometimes.

When anti-gay people like to point out that "at least they're (gay people) not breeding", I like to point out that the gay population is a result of heterosexual breeding.

Z

I-don't-refer-to-her-as-a-black-woman-because-of-what-I'm-about-to-say.....As-I-said,-it's-because-a-white-man-and-a-black-woman-is-rare-and-unconventual,-and-I-don't-use-the-adjective-in-most-other-areas-of-my-life.

I-did-get-a-veiw-on-the-disfunction-a-certian-segment-of-the-American-black-community,-particularly-generation-after-generation-of-children-growing-up-with-one-parent,-usually-being-the-mother......I-saw-how-boys-are-raised-by-a-parent-who-lacks-the-skills-or-cultural-experience-to-raise-them-to-be-productive-people-able-to-stay-with-a-woman-who-he-gets-pregnant-and-keep-a-family-together....I-felt-sorry-for-this-woman-and-she-felt-like-a-bad-mother-because-it-was-clear-(without-me-trying-to-make-it-obvious)-that-I-had-the-instinct-and-skills-of-a-good-parent-and-she-didn't......I-would-shop-for-healthy-food,-cook-the-dinners,-and-I-even-brought-home-books-from-the-library-and-read-to-them-among-many-other-things-like-teaching-them-how-to-swim,-ride-a-bike-without-traning-wheels,-crawl-around-tide-pools,-and-go-hiking-etc.....I-wanted-to-show-her-and-her-kids-a-better-life-but-that-was-just-too-much-to-ask-for.....I-see-how-most-of-this-disfunction-in-the-poor-black-commuunity-started-with-slavery-and-the-remaining-racism,-lack-of-oportunities-or-the-drive-to-grow-intellectually-and-take-advantage-of-oportunities,-and-I-hoped-love-would-conquer-all-and-all-would-come-around-for-the-good......Alas!!!....With-a-broken-heart-I've-let-the-most-beautiful-lovely-woman-I've-ever-known-go.....Even-if-I-could-forgive-her-for-the-cheating-and-stealing-I-can't-ruin-my-son's-life-by-staying-with-her.....My-son-was-raised-right-and-it-shows.....He-is-my-#1-responsibility.

Thank-you-Boss-for-your-comment-about-your-"Hawaian-girl"......I-ithink-if-someone-is-different-from-you-it's-OK-to-refer-to-them-as-black,purple-green-or-whatever.....I-feel-for-people-who-were-raised-to-be-disfunctual.....I-also-admire-some-who-against-many-odds-have-struggled-to-make-sucesses-of-themselves....Some-of-the-nurses-from-poor-socioeconomic-backgrounds-I've-come-in-contact-with-give-off-a-beautiful-aora-of-accomplishment-and-grace.....They-put-themselves-through-school-and-made-good-lives-for-themselves,-and-I,-as-a-privilaged-white-guy,-am-soft-and-weak-compared-to-them.

Z - - -I could totally sit through many many many pots o coffee with you for sure.......

I must correct my ststement about m daughter, or at least clarify, i try to let her know that ..... "i did this in that sitution, and this is what happened" and then let her make the choice of doing it the same or differently.....but more importantly I am right there {as much as a father can be in a teen daughters life} to pick up the pieces or pat her on the back depending on the out come, so i agree whole heartedly with your statements on teens. I still feel as much as I need to respect her opinion that i need to present my expieriences and thoughts to her for her to think about and act upon or not - - i should also clarify that she is my stepdaughter ...so we have very different and i think better relationship than biologicals [lol thats a funny word], we talk about things that would probably make her mother turn inside out, lol but there is still the father daughter line to keep us in check..........

And after reading your post about making love without my penis...............I'm totally down with that and pride myself in always making sure my wife is satified with or without my "member" i think im part lesbian???? LOL

as far as warning goes....i meant it's more for the person doing the warning or i should say informing than for the people "we" are telling.............I mean when i say I'm dateing a black woman, a man, a whatever it's to alow the people i might be talking to to prepare themselves as, as a rule a lot of people have a precocieved picture of things and if it's different they freak out, IE you were pretty lucky in your relationship with the religious guy .....a lot of religious people would have cut the relationship short quickly, or worse took you on as a project to try and make you straight

she called you soft white guy PK ...LMAO ...........


love ya Z - - -thanks for your thoughts...... AL

It's-nice-to-have-such-educated-people-to-communicate-with-here.....I-adore-my-son-and-I'm-so-proud-of-how-he's-turned-out....I-trust-him-and-he-trusts-me....I-think-I-started-out-doing-the-right-thing-by-him......When-he-was-a-baby-he-only-new-how-to-communicate-his-needs-by-crying-for-the-most-part....I-recognised-the-difference-between-a-manipulative-cry-and-a-genuine-cry-and-I-only-responded-to-the-genuine-cry.....he's-had-maybe-3-tantrums-in-his-life-with-me....I-completely-ignored-this-behavior-and-he-learned-that-it-was-a-waste-of-energy-and-stopped.

I-also-have-a-very-good-coparenting-relationship-with-his-mother-who-is-remarried.....I'm-just-so-proud-of-him....He'll-be-here-next-week-and-is-flying-unaccompanied-which-is-a-lot-of-fun-for-him.

I-think-I've-said-enough-about-my-ex-GF......I'm-really-not-that-soft-as-I've-had-a-difficult-life-in-many-ways....I-overcame-drug-and-alcohol-addiction-and-I-came-out-of-it-healthy-and-much-wiser-and-I-think-I-made-the-right-choice-concerning-my-ex-GF....It-was-mostly-for-my-son.

It's-refreshing-to-hear-about-your-obvious-love-for-your-daughter-Boss.....Good-parents-are-not-that-common-unfortunatly.