current
19 posts • Page 1 of 2
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makavelithedon963941 - Posts: 149
- Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:47 am
current
my question is about water current after adding my sump. right now im using two penguin 550 powerheads. if you look at the picture of my sump you can see what my water return spout looks like, its infront to the left. can i remove one of the 550's when the sump is ready?
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schigara - Posts: 468
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:42 pm
A basic rule of thumb is to never rely on return water to provide flow/circulation for your tank. Return flow better serves the purpose of disrupting the surface of the water to aid gas exchange. Aim your return toward the surface to get a nice ripple on top of the water.
Circulation should be provide by either a closed loop system or individual, in-tank pumps.
You currently have two pumps creating 290gph of flow total. WIth a 40g tank, this equates to 7x total turnover rate. This turnover is barely adequate for the coral in your tank. Your tank would really benefit from 2 or 3 times that amount of water flow to keep organics suspended where they can be skimmed from the surface.
Circulation should be provide by either a closed loop system or individual, in-tank pumps.
You currently have two pumps creating 290gph of flow total. WIth a 40g tank, this equates to 7x total turnover rate. This turnover is barely adequate for the coral in your tank. Your tank would really benefit from 2 or 3 times that amount of water flow to keep organics suspended where they can be skimmed from the surface.
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makavelithedon963941 - Posts: 149
- Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:47 am
well i will be using a siphon overflow box to get the water to the sump, im guessing ur not familiar with overflows, because they are also called surface skimmers wich also ripples the top of the water, no need to aim return pump twords top for ripple. i want to get rid of both of the powerheads and buy one of thoes hydor koralia water circulation pumps, anybody have a review on them?
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schigara - Posts: 468
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:42 pm
Actually, I am very familiar with overflows and the benefits of the surface skimming effect they provide. You are referring to what is commonly known as a hang on overflow used in tanks that do not have an in-tank overflow AKA reef-ready tank.
Surface skimming is only effective if there is enough flow in the tank to keep organics suspended in the water column where they can reach the surface and spill into the overflow otherwise they will settle in the rock and substrate.
I actually drilled my own tank and made the internal overflow box and the durso stand pipe which then drains directly into my recirculating skimmer.
You didn't mention anything about installing Koralia's originally. From your first post, you were asking if it would be ok to remove one of the Penguin 550 power heads once the sump was ready.
Water spilling into the overflow will not ripple or disrupt the surface of the water.
When I aim my two returns down and below the surface, there is no disruption from just the water spilling over into the overflow, sorry.
The Hydor Koralia's are very good pumps. I had 2 Koralia 4's and 1 Koralia 3 in my 75 and were great for the 6 months I used them until I started getting more and more SPS corals. The sps needed more flow so I upgraded to 2 Seio 1500's.
All I have ever had for the past 4 years are tanks with internal overflows and sumps and refugiums.
The question is, have you any experience with any type of sump or overflow, either internal or external?
Surface skimming is only effective if there is enough flow in the tank to keep organics suspended in the water column where they can reach the surface and spill into the overflow otherwise they will settle in the rock and substrate.
I actually drilled my own tank and made the internal overflow box and the durso stand pipe which then drains directly into my recirculating skimmer.
You didn't mention anything about installing Koralia's originally. From your first post, you were asking if it would be ok to remove one of the Penguin 550 power heads once the sump was ready.
Water spilling into the overflow will not ripple or disrupt the surface of the water.
When I aim my two returns down and below the surface, there is no disruption from just the water spilling over into the overflow, sorry.
The Hydor Koralia's are very good pumps. I had 2 Koralia 4's and 1 Koralia 3 in my 75 and were great for the 6 months I used them until I started getting more and more SPS corals. The sps needed more flow so I upgraded to 2 Seio 1500's.
All I have ever had for the past 4 years are tanks with internal overflows and sumps and refugiums.
The question is, have you any experience with any type of sump or overflow, either internal or external?
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makavelithedon963941 - Posts: 149
- Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:47 am
i absolutley do, i just finished buliding my own sump with acrylic and i am telling you that any type of overflow ripples the surface of your water, drilled or not, unless your overflow is garbage. I didnt mention the hydor becuase im not planning on getting it for a while, but i wanted to know if removing a 550 would be sufficent flow. and then when im ready to get the koralia i would make another post.
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schigara - Posts: 468
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:42 pm
There is no such thing as a garbage overflow. Depending on the size of the bulkhead and standpipe or in the case of a hang on, the size of the drain and U pipe, they just have different flow capabilities.
If you think you will get adequate gas exchange from the little bit of ripple from just the water movement of the water entering the overflow, I wish you good luck in your endeavors.
I'm not even going to bother to say anymore about the flow in the tank because I'm sure you have made up your mind about that as well.
Personally, when I started out 4 years ago and would ask very basic questions such as these, I would listen to those who had much more experience than I. I don't know how much experience you have but by the questions asked, I would think it's not extensive.
If you don't really want any advice and are not willing to even consider a constructive critique, why ask the question to begin with?
If you think you will get adequate gas exchange from the little bit of ripple from just the water movement of the water entering the overflow, I wish you good luck in your endeavors.
I'm not even going to bother to say anymore about the flow in the tank because I'm sure you have made up your mind about that as well.
Personally, when I started out 4 years ago and would ask very basic questions such as these, I would listen to those who had much more experience than I. I don't know how much experience you have but by the questions asked, I would think it's not extensive.
If you don't really want any advice and are not willing to even consider a constructive critique, why ask the question to begin with?
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makavelithedon963941 - Posts: 149
- Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:47 am
because i also have been in saltwater for 4 yrs and i know for a fact that an overflow box ripples the top of your water, i did want advise about current and u told me i shouldnt rely on my water return for circulation, and i appreciate that, thats why i decided to grab a koralia when i can, so settle down tuff guy
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saltwaterpimp - Posts: 1307
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:22 am
ok kids this is my thoughts...lol
a properly placed over flow box will cause movement on top of the water.
also 2 water pumps for your return would give all of you the chance to get the ugly power heads out of your tanks.
imo water directed at the top of the tank is a waste.if you have your pumps placed right in the tank it should make swirls and eddies in your tank.
also its hard to give any one person advice on how much current they will need because every tank is diffrent. but i do agree with strong current
a properly placed over flow box will cause movement on top of the water.
also 2 water pumps for your return would give all of you the chance to get the ugly power heads out of your tanks.
imo water directed at the top of the tank is a waste.if you have your pumps placed right in the tank it should make swirls and eddies in your tank.
also its hard to give any one person advice on how much current they will need because every tank is diffrent. but i do agree with strong current
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schigara - Posts: 468
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:42 pm
The main point I am trying to make is that water draining into an overflow does not disrupt the surface. It doesn't matter where it's placed or how much water flows though it, it will not aid in gas exchange by sufficiently rippling the surface to break surface tension. Even if you have two 1 1/2 inch drains, if you turn off the power to your closed loop system or powerheads and aim your sump return pipes down and away from the surface, you will see a surface almost as smooth as glass.
All an overflow is is water falling off an edge. It doesn't matter where in the tank this takes place or how quickly it falls, be it 600gph or 1800gph, the surface will remain calm.
Saltpimp, where did he say he would have 2 pumps for return from the sump?
He has never stated what pump he is using in the sump as a return pump. He only mentioned that he might want to replace one or both of the Penguin 550's with Hydor Koralia's which are still in-tank pumps and there are 4 different GPH rated Koralia's + the nano Koralia. He would still have pumps in the display tank.
Without a closed loop system or in-tank pumps, you can only circulate as much water with a return pump as you can drain with the overflow. If your overflow can only handle 800gph then you can only return a maximum of 800gph from the sump which on average would take a pump rated at 1000-1200gph at zero head pressure and depending on the ID size of the return pipe and how high the water would have to be pumped, would determine the actual flow provided by the return itself.
All an overflow is is water falling off an edge. It doesn't matter where in the tank this takes place or how quickly it falls, be it 600gph or 1800gph, the surface will remain calm.
Saltpimp, where did he say he would have 2 pumps for return from the sump?
He has never stated what pump he is using in the sump as a return pump. He only mentioned that he might want to replace one or both of the Penguin 550's with Hydor Koralia's which are still in-tank pumps and there are 4 different GPH rated Koralia's + the nano Koralia. He would still have pumps in the display tank.
Without a closed loop system or in-tank pumps, you can only circulate as much water with a return pump as you can drain with the overflow. If your overflow can only handle 800gph then you can only return a maximum of 800gph from the sump which on average would take a pump rated at 1000-1200gph at zero head pressure and depending on the ID size of the return pipe and how high the water would have to be pumped, would determine the actual flow provided by the return itself.
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makavelithedon963941 - Posts: 149
- Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:47 am
speaking of the koralias, it sounds like ur familiar with them all, which one would be sufficent for my 40 gallon?, remember i will be removing the 550 so the koralia will be the only source of current besides the sump return which appearantly doesnt count
