Cycle Refugium?
6 posts
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wakebd1987 - Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:38 pm
Cycle Refugium?
I have completed building my 20 Gallon Long Sump, with a refugium in the center, for my 30 Gallon African Cichlid Tank. I have tested it and each compartment is holding water and flowing as it should. I want to know what i need to do before i make the connection to my 30 Gallon African Cichlid tank that has been running for about 6 months. Do i need to cycle the sump? I am not wanting both tanks to end up going through a "new tank cycle".
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Okiimiru - Posts: 275
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm
Re: Cycle Refugium?
As long as the water in the refugium isn't poisoned or chlorinated it won't harm the bacteria that are living in your main tank.
The nitrogen that contributes to the ammonia load comes from decomposing food. This is something a lot of people don't seem to understand. It's not how many fish you have that determine your bioload, it's how much you feed them. Anyway, my point is, adding the refugium won't increase the amount of food you're adding to the tank (I don't know, will it? You know the specifics of your setup. Are you feeding anything in there? some people do in refugiums) so it won't increase your bioload.
You know there are two ways to get rid of ammonia, right? Either nitrosomonas bacteria eat it and turn it into nitrite (which is eaten by nirospira/nitrobacter bacteria and turned into nitrate, which is manually removed through water changes) or plants eat the ammonia in the form of ammonium and turn it into new stems and leaves. Plants are really neat. They eat both ammonium and nitrate, although they prefer ammonium, and will stop eating nitrate and will switch to ammonium if it is present. That's actually really nice because it's like a buffer for your system.
If something terrible happens and a fish dies and you don't notice and it starts to rot, ammonia is generated. If your fish is completely 100% bacteria filtered, well, they have a doubling time of like days or something, so the ammonia hangs around for a while in the water column poisoning your fish until the bacteria population can increase and eat it. If your tank has plants, they switch from eating nitrate to eating ammonium the moment it's present, and they'll eat it all in a matter of hours (like under 6 hours). Plants protect your fish, and they protect you from random terrible things. More info on how fast plants eat ammonium: http://theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_B ... Filtration
So... maybe a plant in the refugium? You don't have to. They are very nice, though. I recommend ceratophyllum demersum for cichlid refugiums as it grows well in hard water (mine grew in my tank water of 16 to 20 DH), grows very quickly (absorbing a lot of waste), and doesn't need a fancy substrate. You can just let it float around in a ball like marine refugiums have chaeto. Here's a video of ceratophyllum demersum just kind of floating around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrSdYK5El_8
The nitrogen that contributes to the ammonia load comes from decomposing food. This is something a lot of people don't seem to understand. It's not how many fish you have that determine your bioload, it's how much you feed them. Anyway, my point is, adding the refugium won't increase the amount of food you're adding to the tank (I don't know, will it? You know the specifics of your setup. Are you feeding anything in there? some people do in refugiums) so it won't increase your bioload.
You know there are two ways to get rid of ammonia, right? Either nitrosomonas bacteria eat it and turn it into nitrite (which is eaten by nirospira/nitrobacter bacteria and turned into nitrate, which is manually removed through water changes) or plants eat the ammonia in the form of ammonium and turn it into new stems and leaves. Plants are really neat. They eat both ammonium and nitrate, although they prefer ammonium, and will stop eating nitrate and will switch to ammonium if it is present. That's actually really nice because it's like a buffer for your system.
If something terrible happens and a fish dies and you don't notice and it starts to rot, ammonia is generated. If your fish is completely 100% bacteria filtered, well, they have a doubling time of like days or something, so the ammonia hangs around for a while in the water column poisoning your fish until the bacteria population can increase and eat it. If your tank has plants, they switch from eating nitrate to eating ammonium the moment it's present, and they'll eat it all in a matter of hours (like under 6 hours). Plants protect your fish, and they protect you from random terrible things. More info on how fast plants eat ammonium: http://theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_B ... Filtration
So... maybe a plant in the refugium? You don't have to. They are very nice, though. I recommend ceratophyllum demersum for cichlid refugiums as it grows well in hard water (mine grew in my tank water of 16 to 20 DH), grows very quickly (absorbing a lot of waste), and doesn't need a fancy substrate. You can just let it float around in a ball like marine refugiums have chaeto. Here's a video of ceratophyllum demersum just kind of floating around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrSdYK5El_8
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wakebd1987 - Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:38 pm
Re: Cycle Refugium?
That is a very good point. I really appreciate your insight and the information you have provided. I am still new to the aquarium game, but want to learn as much as i can. DO you know of any good books that basically start from the very basic understanding to advanced? i do know a thing or two but would really like to learn the understanding of how "it" works and other items that can expand my knowledge base. I have attached the picture of the sump i created. It still has some changes that need to be made, such as; run my drain line to the sump, run my return line to the tank, tee off that with two ball valves, which will allow me to control the flow into the tank without straining the pump by just reducing the output, add more "filter floss", and raise my bioballs so that i can achieve the wet/dry aspect. What are your thoughts on my design. Feel free to be a critical as you want. i'm in this to learn. i dont know everything and would like to learn.
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Okiimiru - Posts: 275
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm
Re: Cycle Refugium?
"What are your thoughts on my design."
I like the big open area for plants. If that's a full spectrum light above it, I don't see why not to throw in some ceratophyllum demersum and get it rotating like a ball of chaeto.
I found this video and I find it to be a hilarious mental image: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0swLeG-NsLg
Yours would hopefully be a bit more like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrSdYK5El_8 in its rotation (the dark interior of the rotating ball isn't getting any light) but still, hilarious mental image. XD
As to stuff to read. Uuum. Honestly. Start out with my comments here:
Lighting: topic5058.html
Substrate: http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/ ... substrate/
and http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilize ... jamie.html
this article on water quality: http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_5 ... rticle.htm
and then work your way up to "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. There's lotsa good stuff in there, but it's a bit complex and a basic understanding would help.
I like the big open area for plants. If that's a full spectrum light above it, I don't see why not to throw in some ceratophyllum demersum and get it rotating like a ball of chaeto.
I found this video and I find it to be a hilarious mental image: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0swLeG-NsLg
Yours would hopefully be a bit more like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrSdYK5El_8 in its rotation (the dark interior of the rotating ball isn't getting any light) but still, hilarious mental image. XD
As to stuff to read. Uuum. Honestly. Start out with my comments here:
Lighting: topic5058.html
Substrate: http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/ ... substrate/
and http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilize ... jamie.html
this article on water quality: http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_5 ... rticle.htm
and then work your way up to "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. There's lotsa good stuff in there, but it's a bit complex and a basic understanding would help.
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wakebd1987 - Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:38 pm
Re: Cycle Refugium?
awesome. well i really appreciate you advice and sharing your knowledge of the hobby with me.