How Much Filtration (Cannister Type) is enough & too lit

by **Rodrick** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:33 pm

Hi Can anyone give me an idea on how much Filtration is neccessary. I know the saying you can never have too much BUT what is TOO LITTLE!!!
I have a 180l(48US Gal) bow front corner unit and the advice I got was 800l (212 US Gal) per hour would be adequate and I am starting to think that this is not enough. Calcualtions say the water is being turned 4.5 times p/h BUT have heard / read that with cannister filters you need to look at turning the water 10 times per hour (which I think might be a bit excessive) and others saying that 4 to 5 is sufficient. My tank has fully cycled and the water has remained very clear from virtually day 1 Any help / suggestions would be appreciate Cheers

by **a1k8t31524** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:17 pm

alot of it depends on the fish you have and the bio-load that you have, if you only had say 5 small relitively clean fish i would say that would be fine but say you had 5 goldfish i would up the filtration....Now your profile says you have a chiclid tank. and they drow fast and big and when it it comes down to it they are pretty messy fish
So i would go ahead and up the filtration, remember that the rating that they put on the filters are the max that thoes can put out so depending on how old it is you may only be getting 3/4 of the maximum water movement.

by **Rodrick** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:05 pm

Thanx for the response. The filter is only around 5 weeks old (as old as my set up) At the moment there are 10 cichlids and I have another 13 on order. They will all be in the region of 50 - 70mm. I guess (like you have mentioned) that will make a difference to my requirements What "turnover" would you recommend I look at??? Do I add onto the existing or dump the current one for a bigger cannister??? Problem with corner units is they have very little mounting place for heaters and filtration inlet and outlet pipes to be going and adding multiple units

by **BurgerKing7704** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:55 pm

I'd say when your fish get a little bit bigger, like 3+ inches I'd up the filtration but If you keep you tank understocked you should be ok with 360gph. The only thing about understocking an african tank is the fish will mark territories causing more aggression.

What type of fish do you have(species name), this will determine if you'll need to overstock and over filter. Melanochromis, pseudotropheus, and some metriaclima species fish are really aggressive(most mbuna are really aggressive) and do best in overstocked/over filtered tanks. Also, the species of fish will let us know the size they get and the bioload they produce.

by **kempie** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:36 am

From experience detritus (eg uneaten food/deposits) accumulating on the bottom of the tank has a big effect on water quality, regardless of filtration capacity.
IE if the muck is left to decay on the bottom without removal, filtration gets overloaded regardless of volume resulting in poor water quality - plus bacterial levels rise leading to all sorts of other problems.

In some of my tanks, I have experimented with undergravel jetting (like a reverse UGF) in order to push the muck upwards into the general water volume, where it's eventually picked up by the canister filter inlets. I found this to greatly improve water quality and thus decrease the filtration requirement to 5-6x overall capacity for high volume cichlid tanks.
I used a 3" square drainpipe with large access holes and small jetting holes glued throughout the base of my large tank, and hooked up a 2500lph power head to force water through it. Most of the water exits the large access holes, but some pushes through the jets and lifts the muck out of the gravel. It's difficult to get the hole sizes correct to balance the pressure, but perseverence will help here and I think I nailed it for my tank because the gravel remains clean after several months.

Obviously bottom feeders also help in hoovering up uneaten food particles, providing they're big/armoured enough to resist cichlid aggression.
Anicistrus, large botia and large corydoras are particularly good, ancistrus require bogwood for digestion and need lots of veg matter.
Moreover large synodontis and/or pictus catfish seem to intimidate african cichlids (or so it appears from my limited experiences - mbuna seem to naturally fear large cats), and likewise the cats will devour any leftovers.

by **BurgerKing7704** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:00 am

Kempie is right about the food and wastes effecting water quality. The only problem with undergravel jets for Rodrick's tank is he uses sand(or really fine gravel) as a substrate. I tried UGJ in my 75g and they just blew the sand all over the place. I tried to modify the angle, and even gave them a little extension then a elbow piece so they were completely out of the water directly shooting water across the surface of the sand bed. I even tried a less powerful power head. It just made my tank look like garbage with little ditches everywhere. My males dig when breeding anyways, but the UGJ made it look horrible.

I used a Pool filter sand called Nephyline Seyenite. It's also used to make glass so its a realyl light(weight wise) grain. Maybe a heavier sand with a larger grain might have worked better for me.

I have Synodontis Eurpterus in my mostly mbuna tank. They stay really small so I wouldnt reccomend using them in a more predatory tank. Luckily all my fish ignore them and go after the dom male.

by **Rodrick** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:45 am

Hi Guys
Thanx for all the feedback, makes it easier for a newbee like myself.
I have all Mbuna (10 in total) and have ordered another 13 which arrive tomorrow. Virtually all males

CURRENT STOCK
2 x Pseudotropheus saulosi Males 2 X Females
2 x Metriaclima estherae
2 x Labidochromis caeruleus
2 x Pseudotropheus OB

STOCK ARRIVING TOMORROW
1 X Iodotropheus sprengerae
1 X Labidochromis hongi
1 X Labidochromis perlmutt
1 X Labid. caeruleus white (limited)
1 X Labeotropheus trewavasae' red top' OB
1 X M. cyaneorhabdos (maingano)
1 X P. flavus
1 X Pseudotropheus greshakei 'ice blue'
1 X Pseudotropheus socolofi
1 X Tropheops red cheek
1 X Cynotilapia afra yellow dorsal
1 X P. elongatus Mbenji
1 X Pseudotropheus red top Ndumbi

I will do a few tests (suggested to me) and check things out. I have repositioned the spray bar so that only a few nozzles are above the water line and this has cut back the bubble situation dramtically. So in essence the agitation of the spray bar is causing it BUT as suggested there must be a few undisolved chemicals / minerals causing the "cling on" effect

Thanx again for all your help, and such informative help at that.

Regards
Rodrick

by **jweb1369** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:27 am

I would get another filter. It's always best to have two filters. One week you can clean one, the other week you can clean the other. All the while having one filter on at all times. It helps keep the parameters balanced and it can serve as a back up in case of filter problems.

I have 7 africans in a 30 gallon and I have 2 aquaclear filters which one is rated 20-30 gallons the other is 30-50 gallons, so that is between 50-80 gallons of filtration (total of 350gph).

I need to come up with a way to get the fish feces off of the middle-back of the tank. I'm thinking about hook up a hose to the intake of my 450gph powerhead and running it to the bottom of the tank and maybe running it into a piece of pvc with drilled holes and stuff it with sponge media.

by **BurgerKing7704** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:23 pm

Are you trying to do all male(except for the saulosi)?? That'll mean your fish will be 5-7", so the bioload will be increased in comparison to a M/F mixed tank. I wouldnt do all male in a 48 bow, maybe a 100g.

If i were you, I'd pick 3-4 species you want, then stock 4 or 5 of each. Some of the fish arriving will outgrow this tank real fast. Plus you're wayyyy overstocking this tank. I wouldnt put that stocklist in a 75g.

by **jweb1369** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:25 pm

As long as he has a lot of filtration and does 25% water changes every week and 50% every 3 weeks he should be fine.

How Much Filtration (Cannister Type) is enough & too lit

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